Retired Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling and Ben Parker opened this week's edition of "Command Post," their weekly podcast for The Bulwark, by taking aim at Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's recent speech addressing his pending impeachment in the House of Representatives.

"You can really tell how cornered he feels," Parker said as the show began. Their commentary followed reports that an aide to Hegseth warned journalists that anyone shouting questions would be physically dragged from the room, as Alternet previously reported.

In the speech, Hegseth argued that his impeachment has nothing to do with him personally, framing it instead as an attack on the military itself.

"Let me tear that apart real quick," Hertling said. "You're getting my ire up immediately. First of all, no one is accusing sailors and soldiers of illegal activity. They are actually suggesting that there were illegal orders given. And here's the point: You know, he also made the comment that these were operations ordered by the president and then ordered by [him]. That's the way the chain of command works."

The retired general warned that orders originating with the president can lead to unlawful actions if the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the defense secretary fail to intervene, and that failing to push back against potential war crimes or other illegal conduct carries consequences. That concern underpins one of the articles of impeachment in the legislation introduced by Rep. Tom Massie (R-Ky.). That measure remains pending in the House, where impeachment would require a simple majority before any trial moves to the Senate.

"So, there's some dysfunction in describing that," Hertling continued. "And that particular clip sets the stage for a lot more dysfunctional descriptions that the secretary used during this entire press conference. But make no mistake about it, I have not seen, personally, and maybe you can correct me on this, I have not seen one news organization, one pundit on TV, one self-described critic say that the soldiers and sailors are doing anything wrong."

The real issue, he explained, is that lawmakers are concerned about how the wars are being conducted and what those sailors and soldiers are being asked to do.

Parker, for his part, argued that it has long been a tactic of Hegseth's to "constantly hide behind the people in uniform."

"Cowers behind them," Hertling interjected. "He doesn't hide, he cowers behind them."

"Absolutely!" Parker agreed. "One who cowers is a coward. Whenever he feels like he's politically in trouble, he says, 'Well, it's not me they're after! It's the troops!' No, it's not! No, it's not! It's you! It's just you, man."

Parker added that if the orders handed down by the president and Hegseth are illegal, military members have a duty to disobey them. That duty is not just the hosts' view: the Uniform Code of Military Justice obliges service members to follow lawful orders, and military courts have long rejected "just following orders" as a defense for conduct whose illegality is manifest. As things stand, however, that principle has not been part of the conversation, which has focused entirely on Hegseth himself.

"Ugh, the cowering behind people below him, beneath him in the chain of command, it's just — it's despicable," Parker said.

The comment was one of many problems the two hosts had with Hegseth's defense.